"Their lack of self-awareness functions almost like a disability."
I think I need to remind myself of this again and again in order to achieve an at least cordial relationship with my in-laws. My father in law appears to suffer from extensive undiagnosed and untreated mental health problems partly because of his seemingly traumatic childhood. Unfortunately, this translates into a lot of explosive and controlling behavior from my father in law. Further, his explosive behaviors often end up directed at me as I tend to be the outsider and the source of change in what had previously seemed to be an extremely enmeshed family system. These problems only intensified when my partner started working towards self-differentiation and, eventually, enthusiastically decided to move across the country with me.
Viewing my father in law's emotionally dysregulated responses as a disability rather than a choice is probably essential to my ability to empathize with him enough to let go of my accumulated resentment and move forward. I had, until last night, been no-contact with my in-laws for about a year now. For my partner's sake, I would ultimately like to attempt reconciliation. Hopefully, if I couple this mindset with the fresh set of clear boundaries (which my partner and I intend to reinforce as often as necessary), I can successfully ease into a much less toxic relationship with my partner's family.
I loved reading this post and the comment thread. It's such a complex subject and no easy answers. My perspective on these behaviours has changed a lot since adopting my children and seeing the devastation caused by counter-productive behaviours people use to protect themselves. I see it less as a "disability" and more as an inability but perhaps that's splitting hairs.
Something I've also learned about these behaviours is that these people who exhibit them usually carry such a profound sense of their own worthlessness / unloveability that it's hard for them to connect in meaningful ways.
We often judge these behaviours as though the person is making a conscious choice but this is usually not the case. The mistake we make is that we attempt to appeal to them through words and logic, offering feedback about what they're doing 'wrong'. As the underlying drivers for these behaviours often lie out of logical reach, conversation and feedback may simply reiterate what they already 'know' about themselves - that they are "bad" - and since that's what started the behaviour, we can perpetuate the cycle rather than break it.
The only way I've ever found for turning the tide is by connecting the person with their own sense of worth - not for what they do or what they have but who they are. This part isn't about US accepting them, it's about them accepting themselves. Only they can turn the key. All we can do is make them aware that the key exists in the first place.
Always tough and although I'm able to do this work very effectively with clients, it's still something I find more challenging outside a professional setting. The whole thing is further complicated in cases where society rewards such behaviours with "success", thereby increasing the person's desire to stay as they are.
Thank you, Negra, for a great piece and a wonderfully thought-provoking comments thread!
It’s so interesting that you said their lack of awareness functions like a disability because this is what I realized about some narcissistic people in my life that they simply can’t be any different. It’s like asking a leopard to change its spots. This helped me take their behavior less personally and to stop expecting/hoping they would be different.
All very good points. I'd ask, what happens when setting boundaries creates more chaos and conflict, as boundaries can often be seen as obstacles, challenges to be overcome by the other?
Lindsay C. Gibson’s work has helped me a lot - specifically with regards to emotionally immature family members. In my less reactive moments, I’m able to think of certain people as being teens in an emotional sense (and I’m able to remember that trauma no doubt played a massive part in where they are with it all, now way beyond teen years). This breaks my heart. But I love them, have chosen to keep them in my life despite the harm they cause, and prefer heartbreak to anger when possible.
Choosing to be accepting and transparent in the face of a challenging situation is a beautiful way to acknowledge the reality, even when recognizing that improvements may not be forthcoming. It reflects a conscious decision on your part.
You ever read something and you can see the exact person the text is describing? This is exactly what it felt like. Biggest takeaway is to treat them as if they have a disability. This really disempowers them in my mind. Thank you.
Excellent insight. I have had relationships with people like this, who then try to turn the blame onto anyone else but themselves as if their behavior wasn’t the thing that solicited a boundary to be placed or them to be called out. In turn, their “protection” was to cut me/others off in order to not be held accountable for their actions. I so needed to read this perspective.
It’s difficult to navigate when these people are a part of your close circle, especially family. I have noticed that I continue to show up and ‘ignore’ the negativity and the lack of accountability as suggested by others, but I end up draining myself in the process. I can’t keep showing up, only to be told that I don’t care. It’s hard to figure out how to be cordial but also set boundaries at the same time.
I'm struggling with this so hard right now with certain family members. Thank you for voicing it, Mansi. I've tried so many ways for so long...even choosing to live thousands of miles away for the last four decades. One thing I heard recently that helped a little (can't recall where, but I think during an interview on Glennon Doyle's podcast) is that we can't do their work for them.
Eliminate what causes you frustration. That means you need to know your triggers and then work on how to maintain peace whether it's limiting communication with the person or readjust how you interact or for Ex. If you know the gas station is crowed at 5p but you know that at 7p its less crowed go at 7pm so that you have the opportunity to have a peaceful less chaotic experience at the gas station.
You can be cordial just by being kind in deed and words. That right there is a boundary &modesty in knowing your limitations. Sometimes you have to love folks from afar and let them be in their own corner of foolishness and still maintain your corner of happiness and joyful health. Fill up your love cup by showing up for yourself and gain peace that way.
Aww that’s so sweet. I love lifelong friendships 🥹 My best friend and I have known each other for 20 years, she was basically my first ever friend in life. We met on day 1 of school in kindergarten
"Their lack of self-awareness functions almost like a disability."
I think I need to remind myself of this again and again in order to achieve an at least cordial relationship with my in-laws. My father in law appears to suffer from extensive undiagnosed and untreated mental health problems partly because of his seemingly traumatic childhood. Unfortunately, this translates into a lot of explosive and controlling behavior from my father in law. Further, his explosive behaviors often end up directed at me as I tend to be the outsider and the source of change in what had previously seemed to be an extremely enmeshed family system. These problems only intensified when my partner started working towards self-differentiation and, eventually, enthusiastically decided to move across the country with me.
Viewing my father in law's emotionally dysregulated responses as a disability rather than a choice is probably essential to my ability to empathize with him enough to let go of my accumulated resentment and move forward. I had, until last night, been no-contact with my in-laws for about a year now. For my partner's sake, I would ultimately like to attempt reconciliation. Hopefully, if I couple this mindset with the fresh set of clear boundaries (which my partner and I intend to reinforce as often as necessary), I can successfully ease into a much less toxic relationship with my partner's family.
Narcissistic Sociopath no regard for boundaries predatory behavior disables others emotionally & physically.
This was such a short and sweet read but also so thought-provoking! Thanks for sharing ✨
I loved reading this post and the comment thread. It's such a complex subject and no easy answers. My perspective on these behaviours has changed a lot since adopting my children and seeing the devastation caused by counter-productive behaviours people use to protect themselves. I see it less as a "disability" and more as an inability but perhaps that's splitting hairs.
Something I've also learned about these behaviours is that these people who exhibit them usually carry such a profound sense of their own worthlessness / unloveability that it's hard for them to connect in meaningful ways.
We often judge these behaviours as though the person is making a conscious choice but this is usually not the case. The mistake we make is that we attempt to appeal to them through words and logic, offering feedback about what they're doing 'wrong'. As the underlying drivers for these behaviours often lie out of logical reach, conversation and feedback may simply reiterate what they already 'know' about themselves - that they are "bad" - and since that's what started the behaviour, we can perpetuate the cycle rather than break it.
The only way I've ever found for turning the tide is by connecting the person with their own sense of worth - not for what they do or what they have but who they are. This part isn't about US accepting them, it's about them accepting themselves. Only they can turn the key. All we can do is make them aware that the key exists in the first place.
Always tough and although I'm able to do this work very effectively with clients, it's still something I find more challenging outside a professional setting. The whole thing is further complicated in cases where society rewards such behaviours with "success", thereby increasing the person's desire to stay as they are.
Thank you, Negra, for a great piece and a wonderfully thought-provoking comments thread!
https://open.substack.com/pub/artofsaience/p/harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-embeddings?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=39cqpa
This is so my mom!!
It's only gotten worse because she's been diagnosed with dementia.
It’s so interesting that you said their lack of awareness functions like a disability because this is what I realized about some narcissistic people in my life that they simply can’t be any different. It’s like asking a leopard to change its spots. This helped me take their behavior less personally and to stop expecting/hoping they would be different.
All very good points. I'd ask, what happens when setting boundaries creates more chaos and conflict, as boundaries can often be seen as obstacles, challenges to be overcome by the other?
Well-said and well-written
Amazing 👏🏻 thank you for this.
Lindsay C. Gibson’s work has helped me a lot - specifically with regards to emotionally immature family members. In my less reactive moments, I’m able to think of certain people as being teens in an emotional sense (and I’m able to remember that trauma no doubt played a massive part in where they are with it all, now way beyond teen years). This breaks my heart. But I love them, have chosen to keep them in my life despite the harm they cause, and prefer heartbreak to anger when possible.
Choosing to be accepting and transparent in the face of a challenging situation is a beautiful way to acknowledge the reality, even when recognizing that improvements may not be forthcoming. It reflects a conscious decision on your part.
Thank you, Nedra. ❤️
You ever read something and you can see the exact person the text is describing? This is exactly what it felt like. Biggest takeaway is to treat them as if they have a disability. This really disempowers them in my mind. Thank you.
Excellent insight. I have had relationships with people like this, who then try to turn the blame onto anyone else but themselves as if their behavior wasn’t the thing that solicited a boundary to be placed or them to be called out. In turn, their “protection” was to cut me/others off in order to not be held accountable for their actions. I so needed to read this perspective.
Certain individuals or circumstances may be beyond repair. Expending significant energy attempting to alter people can be futile.
Thank you so my for sharing this!! Definitely needed and definitely ON TIME!! 🫂🤍🤍
It’s difficult to navigate when these people are a part of your close circle, especially family. I have noticed that I continue to show up and ‘ignore’ the negativity and the lack of accountability as suggested by others, but I end up draining myself in the process. I can’t keep showing up, only to be told that I don’t care. It’s hard to figure out how to be cordial but also set boundaries at the same time.
I'm struggling with this so hard right now with certain family members. Thank you for voicing it, Mansi. I've tried so many ways for so long...even choosing to live thousands of miles away for the last four decades. One thing I heard recently that helped a little (can't recall where, but I think during an interview on Glennon Doyle's podcast) is that we can't do their work for them.
So true!! I am finally learning to realise this after so many years of trying to do their work for them
Eliminate what causes you frustration. That means you need to know your triggers and then work on how to maintain peace whether it's limiting communication with the person or readjust how you interact or for Ex. If you know the gas station is crowed at 5p but you know that at 7p its less crowed go at 7pm so that you have the opportunity to have a peaceful less chaotic experience at the gas station.
You can be cordial just by being kind in deed and words. That right there is a boundary &modesty in knowing your limitations. Sometimes you have to love folks from afar and let them be in their own corner of foolishness and still maintain your corner of happiness and joyful health. Fill up your love cup by showing up for yourself and gain peace that way.
Love this advice. Thank you so much!
If I can't change them, at least I can get to know myself better and understand what my triggers are so that I can choose the next steps accordingly.
My pleasure! A wise friend shared that with me and it's always been a treasured gem
So important to keep friends like them around🤍
Yes indeed 25years and counting😁
Aww that’s so sweet. I love lifelong friendships 🥹 My best friend and I have known each other for 20 years, she was basically my first ever friend in life. We met on day 1 of school in kindergarten
Nedra, would love to know the podcast you are referring to. Thanks!